x

Please Login




Register Here!

On Politics, We Can Always See the Whites of Their Eyes.

 Search:  
Login / Register   About Us   Advertise   Contact Us  
RSS Feed

The Patriot Room

In case you were wondering, we can't recall Members of Congress

by: Clyde Middleton   posted: 2009-11-30 10:15:00
Viewed 697 times. 2 Comments.

So Congress ignores the polls on specific legislation, ignores the polls on increased government spending in general, and ignores the polls on their own impending retirements in the 2010 general. They ignore the tea-party marches, the thousands of letters and calls, and the revelations about ACORN and falsified climate data. They allow the Administration to fail to prosecute voter intimidation and to investigate ACORN. Congress is, quite clearly, acting wholly outside the interests of the voters. The liberals in charge of Congress and the White House are marching to their own drummer. They refuse to acknowledge our words and refuse to learn about the malfeasance around them. What can we do except wait to vote them out? Unfortunately, not much.

Here's the operative language - Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of the Constitution:

Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member.

The Supreme Court of the United States has not ruled directly on the issue of recalling a Member of Congress. This would require, for example, a specific instance of recalling a Member of Congress that was challenged by appeal and found its way to SCOTUS. SCOTUS has, however, ruled on the fringes - and close enough to understand how recalls would be viewed.

SCOTUS issued an opinion in 1906 in the matter of Burton v. United States (202 U. S. 344 (1906)). Burton was nailed for, in essence, taking bribes. The Idaho trial court declared as part of his sentence that he was ineligible to serve (kinda sorta - see the words below) in the US Senate. Here's the operative part (202 U. S. at 369):

Allusion has been made to that part of the judgment declaring that the accused, by his conviction, "is rendered forever hereafter incapable of holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the government of the United States." That judgment, it is argued, is inconsistent with the constitutional rights of a Senator to hold his place for the full term for which he was elected, and operates of its own force to exclude a convicted Senator from the Senate, although that body alone has the power to expel its members. We answer that the above words in the concluding part of the judgment of conviction do nothing more than declare or recite what, in the opinion of the trial court, is the legal effect attending or following a conviction under the statute. They might well have been omitted from the judgment. By its own force, without the aid of such words in the judgment, the statute makes one convicted under it incapable forever thereafter of holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the government of the United States. But the final judgment of conviction did not operate ipso facto to vacate the seat of the convicted Senator, nor compel the Senate to expel him or to regard him as expelled by force alone of the judgment. The seat into which he was originally inducted as a Senator from Kansas could only become vacant by his death, or by expiration of his term of office, or by some direct action on the part of the Senate in the exercise of its constitutional powers. This must be so for the further reason that the declaration in § 1782 that anyone convicted under its provisions shall be incapable of holding any office of honor, trust, or profit "under the government of the United States" refers only to offices created by, or existing under the direct authority of, the national government, as organized under the Constitution, and not to offices the appointments to which are made by the states, acting separately, albeit proceeding, in respect of such appointments, under the sanction of that instrument. While the Senate, as a branch of the legislative department, owes its existence to the Constitution and participates in passing laws that concern the entire country, its members are chosen by state legislatures, and cannot properly be said to hold their places "under the government of the United States."

SCOTUS seems to sidestep the issue we care about - can a Member of Congress be removed by other than expulsion as discussion in Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of the Constitution - but they were merely answering the question presented. Fair enough. And now that the long quote is above, so you see the following excerpt in context, let's pull out the operative language:

The seat into which he was originally inducted as a Senator from Kansas could only become vacant by his death, or by expiration of his term of office, or by some direct action on the part of the Senate in the exercise of its constitutional powers.

That seems pretty clear. Once we elect a Member of Congress, we lose control of his or her tenure except in those very limited circumstances.

SCOTUS is not being unduly restrictive nor creative in its position. As early as 1807, the issue was addressed (see pp 5, 6 of the embedded doc below as source for the next two quotes):

The spirit of the Constitution is, perhaps, in no respect more remarkable than in the solicitude which it has manifested to secure the purity of the Legislature by that of the elements of its composition .... Yet, in the midst of all this anxious providence of legislative virtue, it has not authorized the constituent body to recall in any case its representative.

Interestingly, this may not have been a well-considered position that the Framers took, but instead may have evolved merely by taking an opposite approach to the predecessor document, the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union:

The Constitutional Convention of 1787 considered but eventually rejected resolutions calling for this same type of recall [recall of Senators by the state legislatures as provided in the Articles of Confederation]. ... In the end, the idea of placing a recall provision in the Constitution died for lack of support — at least from those participating in the ratifying conventions. The framers and the ratifiers were consciously seeking to remedy what they viewed as the defects of the Articles of Confederation and some of their state constitutions, and for many of them this meant retreating from an excess of democracy.

The Articles of Confederation were quite clear (see Article V):

For the more convenient management of the general interests of the United States, delegates shall be annually appointed in such manner as the legislature of each state shall direct, to meet in Congress on the first Monday in November, in every year, with a power reserved to each state, to recal its delegates, or any of them, at any time within the year, and to send others in their stead, for the remainder of the Year.

There has been a bit more judicial activity on the issue, but nothing that supports a position of using recall. See the full doc below for a comprehensive read.

So they die, quit, get expelled by 2/3s of their own membership - or we wait it out. Sigh ...

Recall of Legislators and the Removal of Members of Congress From Office

Tags:

Related Articles


Links to this post

Trackback url: http://patriotroom.com/article/in-case-you-were-wondering-we-can-t-recall-members-of-congress/trackback

Comments 2

MSGT's Daughter on 2009-11-30 13:30:40

Well, that just pretty much sucks, doesn't it? Thanks for the lesson, Clyde.


avery on 2009-12-01 16:51:48

Clyde, thank you. In fact that is just the very question I have been pondering. Bummer.


Have an opinion?

 Name (required)
 Email (required)
 Website

If you were a member you wouldn't have to input that stuff!


What is 2 + 3 ? (seriously... for moderates the answer is 4 and for liberals the answer is cat)

Note: Your comment may be held for moderation.

blog advertising is good for you

blog advertising is good for you

Publius' Newsstand

  • Waxman: No 'Deem and Pass' - We pass the Senate...

    Hmmm. If Demon Pass is dead (and it is dead according to multiple sources), then they either have the votes and we are just waiting for it, or they would rather lose on an up or down vote so as to avoid the appearance of being Enemies of the State. Since the meeting broke down into chaos, one wonders if they actually have the votes.
    The problem is the sequence. Can the House vote to amend something that isn't the law, as the Senate bill will not be law before the president's signature? The Rules Committee meeting turned into mass confusion when Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman said, "We're not going to 'deem' the bill passed. We're going to pass the Senate bill…I would be against the idea of 'deeming' something -- we either pass it or we don't."

      Views: 77 Comments: 2

  • Rep. Altmire confirms: NO

    Nancy has about run out of "yes" votes: Congressman Jason Altmire will vote against the latest version of health care reform when the U.S. House of Representatives votes on the bill this weekend. Altmire confirmed that he has decided to vote no in a telephone conversation with KDKA Political Editor Jon Delano. The McCandless Democrat is expected to post a statement on his website later today.

      Views: 108 Comments: 0

  • JIP: Obama Approval Under Disapproval on RCP

    Tough to be Barry: Real Clear Politics, or RCP for short, is a news site that averages approval/disapproval polls together, forming a very non-partisan system. For the last year and change, I have closely watched the approval of the President. Slowly but surely, it kept going lower and lower and lower. The President was at his peak on January 29, 2009 with an approval of 63.5 and a disapproval of only 19.3, a 44.2% difference. From the beginning of March to the end of June, Obama's approval/disapproval held moderately steady. But then it happened. The President began calling for radical reforms to the American Health Care System. While reform is needed, this "change" that the President was peddling did not sit well with the American people.

      Views: 195 Comments: 0

  • Will House recon bill surive intact in Senate? ...

    Very clear. Toast: FTA: Senate Budget Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said Thursday that it is unlikely the Senate will be able to pass a health care reconciliation bill unchanged from what the House passes. Conrad said the Senate Parliamentarian has declined to make rulings on several issues in the bill that Republicans are likely to challenge under the “Byrd rule.” That rule states that, among other things, every provision of a budget reconciliation bill must have a budget impact and cannot be “extraneous.” “Although we’ve spent many, many hours with the Parliamentarian, some things he has not yet rendered a conclusion” on, Conrad said. “He wants to hear from both sides before he does.” Conrad continued: “Do I expect there will be some additional Byrd rule challenges that will be upheld? Yeah. I do.”

      Views: 104 Comments: 1

  • Another flip from Yes to No: Rep. Michael Arcur...

    Rep. Mike Arcuri (D., N.Y.), a sophomore who had a tough go of it in 2008, will vote nay on Obamacare, both on the House floor and in the Rules Committee. The Rules vote is symbolic, since Democrats outnumber Republicans there two-to-one. But the floor vote could go either way. It is obviously a blow to Pelosi's chances of hitting 216.

      Views: 169 Comments: 0

  • Update on CBO: Corrupt Dem leaders touting unof...

    Thanks to Avery for the heads-up on today's atrocity rolling off Capitol Hill.
    Ranking Republican Paul Ryan responds to an NRO query about the news this morning: “The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press — and spinning for partisan gain — numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm.
    Boy, a final official number that came in over a trillion bucks would really bite them in the a**.

      Views: 135 Comments: 1

  • McCain's lead over Hayworth shrinks to 7

    Johnny Mac is also under the all-important 50% support level.
    The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of likely Arizona GOP Primary voters shows McCain ahead 48% to 41%. Three percent (3%) favor another candidate, and eight percent (8%) are undecided. Following the announcement that Sarah Palin would campaign for his reelection, McCain opened up a 53% to 31% lead over Hayworth in January. The two men were in a near tie in November.
    By my math, McCain's lead shrunk from 21 to 7 in two months. Hmmm.

      Views: 80 Comments: 0

  • CBO: Obamacare costs $940 billion

    And in the world of Washington speak, somehow spending that much cash actually lowers the deficit by $130 billion. I have a better idea. How about we just not spend $940 billion in the first place? After all, if you are trying to trim your budget, you don't go buying a Lamborghini on a credit card. One more thing. Isn't it funny how CBO can score a bill without an actual bill. Hmmm . . .

      Views: 91 Comments: 0

  • USA Today editors: The Slaughter Rule is a 'gim...

    Keep in mind USA Today wholeheartedly supports this health care takeover, but even they are disturbed by "deeming" a bill passed without a vote in the House.
    [House] leaders are mulling a rule that would allow the chamber to "deem" the Senate's version of health legislation as passed, without actually having to vote on it. Imagine how useful this trick would be in daily life. You could make unpopular decisions without actually appearing to make them. That excruciating Thanksgiving dinner at your brother-in-law's? You "deemed" that you attended. . . . It's understandable that some House Democrats wouldn't want to cast a direct vote on the Senate bill . . . before moving to change it. But a procedure this transparently gimmicky just adds to the cynicism surrounding the bill and opens it up to unnecessary court challenges.

      Views: 97 Comments: 2

  • Biden bombs at Correspondents' Dinner

    Biden is funnier when he isn't trying to be funny. This stuff is so lame, he should have gotten the hook. More, if you can stand them, at the link. - "I just got back from five days in the Middle East. It's great to be back to a place where a boom in housing construction is a good thing." - "Liz Cheney is here tonight. Liz has been on a tear. Now she's questioning if Tom Brady is a Patriot." Meh, said the crowd. "What the hell, it was worth a try." - On moving to Washington: "I voted for public housing all my career -- never realized how good it actually is!"

      Views: 112 Comments: 1

Get Your PR Button!

More Articles By Clyde Middleton

Copyright © 2008-2009 Patriot Room Media, LLC
Privacy Policy  Terms Of Service